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CITIZEN KANE-473667

Questioning the staus quo.....
Articles Posted: 333  Links Seeded: 192
Member Since: 9/2008  Last Seen: 5/20/2012

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Poll: You Are an Extremist (and Possible Terrorist) and I Can Prove It!

Tue Jun 2, 2009 8:13 PM EDT
politics, extremist, activist-politics, definitions-domestic-terrorist
By Citizen Kane-473667

Live Poll

Are you an extremist (and possible Domestic Terrorist)?

View Results
  • 42592
    Hell Yeah!
    33%
  • 42593
    Hell No!
    15%
  • 42594
    Maybe after I finish my beer!
    10%
  • 42595
    Not unless they cancel Americam Idol!
    2%
  • 42596
    I couldn't care less about any of this crap!
    40%

VoteTotal Votes: 138

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This is copied from a Department of Homeland Security memo and can be found at:

http://www.tdbimg.com/files/2009/04/30/-hsra-domestic-extremism-lexicon_165213935473.pdf

(U) Definitions

(U) aboveground

(U//FOUO) A term used to describe extremist groups orindividuals who operate overtly and portray themselves as
law-abiding.

(U) alternative media

(U//FOUO) A term used to describe various information sources that provide a forum for interpretations of events and issues that differ radically from those presented in mass media products and outlets.

(U) anarchist extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who advocate a society devoid of government structure or oownership of individual property. Many embrace some of the radical philosophical components of anticapitalist, antiglobalization, communist, socialist, and other movements. Anarchist extremists advocate changing government aand society through revolutionary violence. (also: revolutionary anarchists)

(U) animal rights extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who ascribe equal value to all living organisms and seek to end the
perceived abuse and suffering of animals. They believe animals are sentient creatures that experience emotional,
physical, and mental awareness and deserve many of the same rights as human beings; for example, the right to life and freedom to engage in normal, instinctive animal behavior. These groups have been known to advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism in an attempt to advance their extremist goals. They have targeted industries, businesses, and government entities that they perceive abuse or exploit animals, including those that use animals for testing, human services, food production, or consumption. (also: animal liberation)

(U) antiabortion extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who are virulently antiabortion and advocate violence against providers of abortion-related services, their employees, and their facilities. Some cite various racist and anti-Semitic beliefs to justify their criminal activities.
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

(U) anti-immigration extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who are vehemently opposed to illegal immigration, particularly along the U.S. southwest border with Mexico, and who have been known to advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism to advance their extremist goals. They are highly critical of the U.S. Government's response to illegal immigration and oppose government programs that are designed to extend "rights" to illegal aliens, such as issuing driver's licenses or national identification cards and providing
in-state tuition, medical benefits, or public education.

(U) antitechnology extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals opposed to technology. These groups have been known to advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism in an attempt to advance their extremist goals. They have targeted college and university laboratories, scholars, biotechnology industries, U.S. corporations involved in the computer or airline industry, and others. (also: Neo-Luddites)

(U) Aryan prison gangs

(U//FOUO) Individuals who form organized groups while in prison and advocate white supremacist views. Group members may continue to operate under the auspices of the prison gang upon their release from correctional
facilities.

(U) black bloc

(U//FOUO) An organized collection of violent anarchists and anarchist affinity groups that band together for illegal acts of civil disturbance and use tactics that destroy property or strain law enforcement resources. Black blocs operate in autonomous cells that infiltrate nonviolent protests, often without the knowledge of the organizers of the event.

(U) black nationalism

(U//FOUO) A term used by black separatists to promote the unification and separate identity of persons of black or
African American descent and who advocate the establishment of a separate nation within the United States.

(U) black power

(U//FOUO) A term used by black separatists to describe their pride in and the perceived superiority of the black race.
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

(U) black separatism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals of black or African American descent who advocate the separation of the races or the separation of specific geographic regions from the rest of the United States; some advocate forming their own political system within a separate nation. Such groups or individuals also may embrace radical religious beliefs Members have been known to advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence directed toward local law enforcement in an attempt to advance their extremist goals.

(U) Christian Identity

(U//FOUO) A racist religious philosophy that maintains non-Jewish whites are "God's Chosen People" and the true
descendants of the Twelve Tribes of Israel. Groups or individuals can be followers of either the Covenant or Dual Seedline doctrine; all believe that Jews are conspiring with Satan to control world affairs and that the world is on the verge of the Biblical apocalypse. Dual Seedline adherents believe Jews are the literal offspring of Satan and that nonwhites, who are often referred to as "mud people," are not human beings. (also: Identity, CI, Anglo-Israel)

(U) Cuban independence extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who do not recognize the legitimacy of the Communist Cuban Government and who attempt to subvert it through acts of violence, mainly within the United States. (also: anti-Castro groups)

(U) decentralized terrorist movement

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who pursue shared ideological goals through tactics of leaderless
resistance independent of any larger terrorist organization.

(U) denial-of-service attack

(U//FOUO) An attack that attempts to prevent or impair the intended functionality of computer networks, systems, or
applications. Depending on the type of system targeted, the attack can employ a variety of mechanisms and means.
(also: DoS attack)

(U) direct action

(U//FOUO) Lawful or unlawful acts of civil disobedience ranging from protests to property destruction or acts of violence. This term is most often used by single-issue or anarchist extremists to describe their activities.

(U) Christian Identity symbol.
adl.org
UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

(U) Green Anarchism symbol.

(U) environmental extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who use violence to end what they perceive as the degradation of the natural environment by humans. Members have advocated or engaged in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism in an attempt to advance their extremist goals. They target industries, businesses, and government entities that they allege are engaged in habitat destruction, citing urban sprawl and development, logging, construction sites and related equipment, and man-made sources of air, water, and land pollution. (also: ecoterrorism)

(U) ethnic-based extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who are drawn together and form extremist beliefs based on their
ethnic or cultural background. Members have advocated or engaged in criminal activity and have plotted acts of violence and terrorism in an attempt to advance their extremist goals.

(U) extremist group

(U//FOUO) An ideologically driven organization that advocates or attempts to bring about political, religious,
economic, or social change through the use of force, violence, or ideologically motivated criminal activity.
(U) green anarchism (U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who combine anarchist ideology with an environmental focus. They advocate a return to a preindustrial, agrarian society, often through acts of violence and terrorism.

(U) hacktivism

(U//FOUO) (A portmanteau of "hacking" and "activism.") The use of cyber technologies to achieve a political end, or
technology-enabled political or social activism. Hacktivism might include website defacements, denial-of-service attacks, hacking into the target's network to introduce malicious software (malware), or information theft.

(U) hate groups

(U//FOUO) A term most often used to describe white supremacist groups. It is occasionally used to describe other
racist extremist groups. (U) Jewish extremism (U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals of the Jewish faith who are willing to use violence or commit other criminal acts to protect themselves against perceived affronts to their religious or ethnic identity. en.wikipedia.org

UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

(U) leaderless resistance

(U//FOUO) A strategy that stresses the importance of individuals and small cells acting independently and anonymously outside formalized organizational structures to enhance operational security and avoid detection. It is used by many types of domestic extremists.

(U) leftwing extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals that embraces anticapitalist, Communist, or Socialist doctrines
and seeks to bring about change through violent revolution rather than through established political processes. The term also refers to leftwing, single-issue extremist movements that are dedicated to causes such as environmentalism, opposition to war, and the rights of animals. (also: far left, extreme left)

(U) lone terrorist

(U//FOUO) An individual motivated by extremist ideology to commit acts of criminal violence independent of any larger terrorist organization. (also: lone wolf)

(U) Mexican separatism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals of Mexican descent who advocate the secession of southwestern
U.S. states (all or part of Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas) to join with Mexico through armed struggle.
Members do not recognize the legitimacy of these U.S. states, including the U.S. Government's original acquisition of these territories.

(U) militia movement

(U//FOUO) A rightwing extremist movement composed of groups or individuals who adhere to an antigovernment
ideology often incorporating various conspiracy theories. Members oppose most federal and state laws, egulations, and authority (particularly firearms laws and regulations) and often conduct paramilitary training designed to resist perceived government interference in their activities or to overthrow the U.S. Government through the use of violence. (also: citizens militia, unorganized militia)

(U) neo-Nazis

(U//FOUO) Groups or individuals who adhere to and promote Adolph Hitler's beliefs and use Nazi symbols and
ideology. Subjects subscribe to virulently racist as well as anti-Semitic beliefs, many based on national socialist ideals derived from Nazi Germany. Neo-Nazis may attempt to downplay or deny the Jewish Holocaust. (also: national socialists, Nazis)

UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

(U) patriot movement

(U//FOUO) A term used by rightwing extremists to link their beliefs to those commonly associated with the American
Revolution. The patriot movement primarily comprises violent antigovernment groups such as militias and sovereign
citizens. (also: Christian patriots, patriot group, Constitutionalists, Constitutionist)

(U) Phineas Priesthood

(U//FOUO) A Christian Identity doctrine derived from the Biblical story of Phinehas, which adherents interpret as justifying inter-racial killing. Followers of this belief system also have advocated martyrdom and violence against
homosexuals, mixed-race couples, and abortion providers.

(U) primary targeting

(U//FOUO) Plans or attacks directed by extremists against parties that are the focus of an organized campaign.

(U) Puerto Rican independence extremists

(U//FOUO) Groups or individuals who engage in criminal activity and advocate the use of violence to achieve
Puerto Rican independence from the United States.

(U) racial Nordic mysticism

(U//FOUO) An ideology adopted by many white supremacist prison gangs who embrace a Norse mythological religion, such as Odinism or Asatru. (also: Odinism, Asatru) (U) racialist (U//FOUO) A term used by white supremacists intended to minimize their extreme views on racial issues.

(U) racist skinheads

(U//FOUO) Groups or individuals who combine white supremacist ideology with a skinhead ethos in which "white
power" music plays a central role. Dress may include a shaved head or very short hair, jeans, thin suspenders, combat boots or Doc Martens, a bomber jacket (sometimes with racist symbols), and tattoos of Nazi-like emblems. Some are abandoning these stereotypical identifiers. (also: skins)

(U) radicalization

(U//FOUO) The process by which an individual adopts an extremist belief system leading to his or her willingness to
advocate or bring about political, religious, economic, or social change through the use of force, violence, or
ideologically motivated criminal activity.

(U) Phineas Priesthood
symbol.
adl.org

UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

(U) rightwing extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of rightwing groups or individuals who can be broadly divided into those who are primarily
hate-oriented, and those who are mainly antigovernment and reject federal authority in favor of state or local authority. This term also may refer to rightwing extremist movements that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration. (also known as far right, extreme right)

(U) secondary targeting

(U//FOUO) Plans or attacks directed against parties (secondary targets) that provide direct financial, logistic, or
physical support to the primary target of an organized campaign, with the goal of coercing those parties to end their
engagement with a primary target. Secondary targets can include customers of or suppliers to a primary target or
employees of a primary target organization.

(U) single-issue extremist groups

(U//FOUO) Groups or individuals who focus on a single issue or cause—such as animal rights, environmental or
anti-abortion extremism—and often employ criminal acts. Group members may be associated with more than one issue. (also: special interest extremists)

(U) skinheads

(U//FOUO) A subculture composed primarily of working-class, white youth who embrace shaved heads for
males, substance abuse, and violence. Skinheads can be categorized as racist, anti-racist or "traditional," which
emphasizes group unity based on fashion, music, and lifestyle rather than political ideology. Dress often includes a shaved head or very short hair, jeans, thin suspenders, combat boots or Doc Martens, and a bomber jacket.
(also: skins)

UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

(U) sovereign citizen movement

(U//FOUO) A rightwing extremist movement composed of groups or individuals who reject the notion of
U.S. citizenship. They claim to follow only what they believe to be God's law or common law and the original
10 amendments (Bill of Rights) to the U.S. Constitution. They believe they are emancipated from all other
responsibilities associated with being a U.S. citizen, such as paying taxes, possessing a driver's license and motor vehicle registration, or holding a social security number. They generally do not recognize federal or state government
authority or laws. Several sovereign citizen groups in the United States produce fraudulent documents for their
members in lieu of legitimate government-issued forms of identification. Members have been known to advocate or
engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism in an attempt to advance their extremist goals.
They often target government officials and law enforcement. ( lso: state citizens, freemen, preamble citizens, common law citizens)

(U) tax resistance movement

(U//FOUO) Groups or individuals who vehemently believe taxes violate their constitutional rights. Among their beliefs are that wages are not income, that paying income taxes is voluntary, and that the 16th Amendment to the
U.S. Constitution, which allowed Congress to levy taxes on income, was not properly ratified. Members have been
known to advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism in an attempt to advance their
extremist goals. They often target government entities such as the Internal Revenue Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. (also: tax protest movement, tax freedom movement, antitax
movement)

(U) tertiary targeting (

U//FOUO) Plans or attacks against parties with indirect links to the primary target of an organized campaign.
Tertiary targets can include employees, customers, investors, and other participants in a company (the secondary target) that does business with or provides support services to the primary target; or parties who provide direct financial, logistic, or physical support to the secondary target. (U) underground (U//FOUO) A term used to describe clandestine extremist groups, individuals, or their activities.

UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY

(U) violent antiwar extremism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of
violence and terrorism in an attempt to voice their opposition to U.S. involvement in war-related activities. They often
target the military, seats of government power, and defense industry personnel, facilities, and activities.

(U) violent religious sects

(U//FOUO) Religious extremist groups predisposed toward violence. These groups often stockpile weapons, conduct paramilitary training, and share a paranoid interpretation of current world events, which they often associate with the end of the world. They perceive outsiders as enemies or evil influences; display intense xenophobia and strong distrust of the government; and exercise extreme physical or psychological control over group members, sometimes isolating them from society or subjecting them to physical or sexual abuse and harsh initiation practices.

(U) white nationalism

(U//FOUO) A term used by white supremacists to emphasize what they perceive as the uniquely white (European) heritage of the United States.

(U) white power

(U//FOUO) A term used by white supremacists to describe their pride in and the perceived superiority of the white race.

(U) white separatism

(U//FOUO) A movement of groups or individuals who believe in the separation of races and reject interracial
marriages. Some advocate the secession of specifi cgeographic regions from the rest of the United States.
Members have been known to advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism in an attempt to advance their extremist goals.

(U) white supremacist movement

(U//FOUO) Groups or individuals who believe that whites—Caucasians—are intellectually and morally superior to other races and use their racist ideology to justify committing crimes, acts of violence, and terrorism to advance their cause. Some advocate racial separation/segregation.

White supremacists generally fall into six categories:
Neo-Nazi, Ku Klux KlanUSPER, Christian Identity, racist
skinhead, Nordic mysticism, or Aryan prison gangs.

White supremacists have been known to embrace more thanone of these categories

Speak out against the Government in any way you run the risk of being labeled a "Extremist". Act on you convictions and you may become a "Domestic Terrorist". Consider yourself warned...

Now that you have read them here is the question of the day: Which categories would describe you?

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

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  • Public Discussion (176)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
Brian-328194

They have covered every possible way they could pin a charge on anyone for any belief system, including everyone which was responsible for coming up with this list of crap.

LMAOROF

Yet it's frieghteningly "Not" funny !

  • 15 votes
#1 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 8:42 PM EDT
Citizen Kane-473667

Yep so now they have Carte Blanche to do whatever they want in the name of National Security (like they didn't before).

  • 15 votes
#1.1 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 9:06 PM EDT
Gay Vet

Dept. of Homeland Security.................courtesy of George W. Bush and Dick (head) Cheney. Enjoy all! HA HA HA!

  • 23 votes
#1.2 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 9:47 PM EDT
Citizen Kane-473667

NSA and CIA have been around longer than that. Not every accident was an accident before Bush.....

  • 12 votes
#1.3 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:00 PM EDT
Gay Vet

Your article is about DHS correct? Product of Bush. Let's stay on the subject now.

  • 18 votes
#1.4 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:01 PM EDT
kiml

I was a radical in the 60's. I still have the same views. I guess that makes me a terrorist.

F#ck the government.

  • 12 votes
#1.5 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:30 PM EDT
Citizen Kane-473667

No GayVet it is about Government and your rights if you can think past the page it is very obvious. Yeah Bush is part of it but did he create the NSA and the CIA. Both agencies as well as the Secret Service have been able to label anyone a threat to national security and detain them indefinitely long before Bush. Get over the partisanship and see the forest DESPITE the trees! The BLAME washes across the aisle out the door and lays at our feet. WE let them do this to us! You are an extremist because you have posted this on your column:

H-aven't Y-ou P-issed O-n the C-onstitutional R-ights of I-nfinite T-axpayers E-nough?

sounds like:

(U) tax resistance movement

(U//FOUO) Groups or individuals who vehemently believe taxes violate their constitutional rights. Among their beliefs are that wages are not income, that paying income taxes is voluntary, and that the 16th Amendment to the
U.S. Constitution, which allowed Congress to levy taxes on income, was not properly ratified. Members have been
known to advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism in an attempt to advance their
extremist goals. They often target government entities such as the Internal Revenue Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. (also: tax protest movement, tax freedom movement, antitax
movement)

Or that GayVet part could be interpreted as:

(U) single-issue extremist groups

(U//FOUO) Groups or individuals who focus on a single issue or cause—such as animal rights, environmental or
anti-abortion extremism—and often employ criminal acts. Group members may be associated with more than one issue. (also: special interest extremists)

or even:

(U//FOUO) A term used by rightwing extremists to link their beliefs to those commonly associated with the American
Revolution. The patriot movement primarily comprises violent antigovernment groups such as militias and sovereign
citizens. (also: Christian patriots, patriot group, Constitutionalists, Constitutionist)

  • 6 votes
#1.6 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 11:40 PM EDT
krishna-167929

And of course there's this

Muslim Convert Arrested in Arkansas Recruiting Center Shooting

"An Arkansas man was arrested Monday in connection with a shooting at a Little Rock military recruiting center that killed one soldier and wounded another, authorities said.

"While authorities continued to investigate a motive, Thomas said Muhammad is a Muslim convert and, based on preliminary interviews with him, investigators believe there were "political and religious motives" in the shooting.

Still undecided if he was a "terrorist"...

But-- this update was interesting:

Muhammad had been under investigation by an FBI-led terrorism task force since he returned to the United States from Yemen last year, a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.

He had been "under investigation"-- looks like the FBI @!$%#ed up here....but-- was he a terrorist..or not?

(Read it all)

  • 10 votes
#1.7 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 1:32 AM EDT
Citizen Kane-473667

Hey if nothing else he was an extremist as defined by DHS....

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 1:37 AM EDT
Gay Vet

Citizen Kane,

The first group doesn't apply to me as I don't mind paying my taxes, I just have a problem with the way some of them are used. The second one fits the best and I am definitely not in the third group.

WOO HOO! I'm an extremist! Yeah! ;-)

That would make Mother Teressa an extremist as well.

  • 13 votes
#1.9 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 7:08 AM EDT
Karl_

I have read the list. For those that would take solace in thinking that they have the right to remain silent, the gov - until further notice - has the right to waterboard them to make them talk. ê¿ê

  • 5 votes
#1.10 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 7:51 AM EDT
Citizen Kane-473667

GayVet my bad I kind of obsess some times so when I saw this:

C-onstitutional R-ights of ...T-axpayers

I jumped to a Conclusion like I was some kind of spook looking for Extremist (and Possible Terrorist)

WOO HOO! I'm an extremist! Yeah! ;-)

Welcome to the crowd! <:OP

  • 7 votes
#1.11 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 8:04 AM EDT
Brent-320354

Gay Vet, DHS works for Obama now. Bush is gone-get over it.

Signed, straight vet

  • 5 votes
#1.12 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:44 AM EDT
Schroedingers Cat

Does wanting to conquer the entire planet to save it from Radical Conservatives and religious fanatics qualify me?

  • 5 votes
#1.13 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:48 AM EDT
red_thunder

the only thing that qualified me as a terrorist was my participation here.

  • 2 votes
#1.14 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:14 AM EDT
Citizen Kane-473667

red_thunder you are in denial. From your column

Lack of) Patriotism in the Age of Obama

Sat May 30, 2009

  • JAYWOW- i advocate the constitution and stand by my oath. i am opposed to any type of violence unless all other avenues have been exhausted. personally; i think the courts will play a large part in the renovation of america.

You are an Extremist (and Possible Terrorist) Thank you for participating in our little fun game itshardoutthereforapimp has dubbed "Pin the Tail on the Terrorist! " (;o)

(U) patriot movement

(U//FOUO) A term used by rightwing extremists to link their beliefs to those commonly associated with the American Revolution. The patriot movement primarily comprises violent antigovernment groups such as militias and sovereign
citizens. (also: Christian patriots, patriot group, Constitutionalists, Constitutionist)

Schroedingers Cat as you can see by the use of sections of the definitions above we can define you as anything we need to by using your own words, friends, sources of information, political beliefs,or nothing at all (Aboveground Extremist) in order to justify detaining you indefinitely, questioning you without counsel, wiretapping your communications, bugging your home, warrentless searches on suspicion alone, and torture (please bring a dry shirt). Should you resist Government Tyrannical Behaviour through violence we will then classify you as a Domestic Terrorist just Like G. Washington and his ilk.

  • 5 votes
#1.15 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:34 AM EDT
Schroedingers Cat

In other words...I'm Screwed!

  • 4 votes
#1.16 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:51 AM EDT
Stop the ignorance.

There's a terrorist under every rock.

  • 2 votes
#1.17 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 11:41 AM EDT
PalmettoArmadillo

It looks like DHS has been rummaging through McCarthy's old desk drawers. What does it take to be a good American these days?....................Blind obedience, silence, and a hermitage.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

I guess the founding fathers were on the DHS list as well. Suddenly I feel like I am in good company. Just wondering, what category does DHS falls under? Should we create a category to describe DHS and send it to them for inclusion in their current list? Perhaps "Institutional Paranoid Schizophrenia" fit them best.

  • 5 votes
#1.18 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 1:12 PM EDT
Gay Vet

Brent

Gay Vet, DHS works for Obama now. Bush is gone-get over it.

Signed, straight vet

DHS was CREATED by Bush and that was the point of what Kane and I were talking about, so you need to get over it. I'm glad you managed to get your digs in for Obama and the sexual reference. Feeling better now? Putz.

  • 3 votes
#1.19 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 3:12 PM EDT
Tim S.-560036

It is disappointingdissappointing that so many American Citizens that have the right to vote are complete morons.

What is the common phrase in all of the definitions? "Advocate violence." If you advocate violence as a means of achieving your goals you are a TERRORIST, period end of story. You can have any view you want and peacably avocate for that viewpoint. But, as soon as you mention physical damage to property or persons, you are a terrorist. It is that simple. The fact that there are derainged individuals that support any and all human endeavors does not discredit those endeavors just the individual. Whether it is Randal Terry or DANIEL ANDREAS SAN DIEGO, the only domestic terrorist on the FBI's most wanted list for his violent animal rights activities, they should be arrested and charged with sedition, treason, murder and any other crimes related to their encouragement of violence. They are no less guilty than the mob boss that implies it would be good if a certain person was to die. That is still considered ordering the death and is prosecuted as first degree murder. Randall Terry = John Gotti.

    #1.20 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 3:29 PM EDT
    WmRAllen

    Did I miss a sacrcasm tag somewhere?

    Tim S. (#1.20, above) has a point. The most salient enty in the definitions is this one:

    extremist group: An ideologically driven organization that advocates or attempts to bring about political, religious, economic, or social change through the use of force, violence, or ideologically motivated criminal activity. [emphasis mine]

      #1.21 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 4:11 PM EDT
      Tim S.-560036

      WmR

      I was thinking I missed the tag too. But, too many of these posts seemed to be serious that I had to comment.

        #1.22 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 4:26 PM EDT
        Citizen Kane-473667

        It is disappointingdissappointing that so many American Citizens that have the right to vote are complete morons.

        Declaration of Independence:

        When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

        This country was founded by Terrorist as defined by you Tim S.:

        If you advocate violence as a means of achieving your goals you are a TERRORIST, period end of story. You can have any view you want and peacably avocate for that viewpoint. But, as soon as you mention physical damage to property or persons, you are a terrorist. It is that simple.

        Unless you think the forefathers could have sued King George into submission...

        Now I have taken the time to sport the governments definitions of "Extremist" and you take offence saying they would never use the definitions out of context. I beg to differ. When "terroristic" laws passed after 9/11 we were told they were to be used for the trying of those who basicly were terrorist, i.e., Osama Bin Laden and the Timothy McVeighs of the world. Yet these same laws are being used against everyday run of the mill criminals. From the woman "terrorizing" her ex with "Terroristic Threats" to gang members on the streets of our cities. Do they deserve it? Under the letter of the law they do because they fit the definition of Terroristic Acts. The same laws we were told would not be used against us are. Now do you see why I felt the need to bring out the fact that these definitions of "Extremists" are very important to our future as a country? I figured I better do it now before these new laws and definitions take root because NewsVine would be considered:

        U) alternative media

        (U//FOUO) A term used to describe various information sources that provide a forum for interpretations of events and issues that differ radically from those presented in mass media products and outlets.

        But please I apologize for the atrocious editing of the piece I posted. I failed to put it into a text document first to correct the appearence it took on the cut and paste form. Allow me to direct your attention to this stupid little tidbit of bad editing....:

        also: DoS attack) (U) direct action (U//FOUO) Lawful or unlawful acts of civil disobedience ranging from protests to property destruction or acts of violence. This term is most often used by single-issue or anarchist extremists to describe their activities.

        DoS attack was part of the previous definition....so it should read like this:

        (U) direct action

        (U//FOUO) Lawful or unlawful acts of civil disobedience ranging from protests to property destruction or acts of violence. This term is most often used by single-issue or anarchist extremists to describe their activities.

        Catch that Lawful part???????

        • 4 votes
        #1.23 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 4:27 PM EDT
        Tim S.-560036

        CK

        I did miss that one in the bulk of the other definitions. It is troubling and will hopefully fail constitutional muster in the first court case. It is in direct violation of the first ammendment.

        The founding fathers are different than terrorists. They fought an army. They did not target individuals to instill fear among the general population. Once, the war started they did target the resources of the enemy army, but not with the sole purpose of intimidating the population in general.

        As for the patriot act, I was against it from the start. It is the antithesis of what it means to be a Patriot. The problem in my opinion is that the general population is to stupid to realize that we have one political party that tag teams the disintegration of our civil rights. As long as we vote for one of the 2 republicrats on the ticket we will continue to lose our liberties. The thing is in this country we still have the option to corrrect this throw our regularly scheduled non-violent revolutions (elections) if we will just exercise our right to send them all home.

        The other change we need is to strip corporations of the rights of the individual they were erroneously given and to even the political playing field by eliminating the equating of money to free speech. Every citizen should have comparable access to free speech regardless of wealth. If this means limiting political expenditures of individuals so be it. Corporations have no rights under the constitution and therefore have no right to free speech in any sense. The only aspect of these definitions that has any constitutional validity is the use of violence.

        • 1 vote
        #1.24 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 5:41 PM EDT
        Citizen Kane-473667

        Tim S welcome to V.O.I.CE. in America!

        • 4 votes
        #1.25 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 5:51 PM EDT
        WmRAllen

        Kane, simply defining the term does not prescribe or propose any action to be taken in relation to it. A "direct action" is a either a lawful or unlawful act. An "extremist group" is a group that uses unlawful direct actions ("force, violence, or ideologically motivated criminal activity").

        The distinction is written into the document you've quoted-- undermining the hyperbolic nature of your premise ("the government is out to get all of us", from what I can see...).

          #1.26 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 7:12 PM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          WmRAllen please read post #1.23 to understand my true motive for righting this article....

          you can jump straight to the middle....

          • 3 votes
          #1.27 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 7:35 PM EDT
          CorruptionEruption

          Tim S.-560036:

          "As for the patriot act, I was against it from the start. It is the antithesis of what it means to be a Patriot. The problem in my opinion is that the general population is to stupid to realize that we have one political party that tag teams the disintegration of our civil rights. As long as we vote for one of the 2 republicrats on the ticket we will continue to lose our liberties. The thing is in this country we still have the option to corrrect this throw our regularly scheduled non-violent revolutions (elections) if we will just exercise our right to send them all home."

          Tim: Excellent Post! Obama hasn't done one thing to undo any of the intrusions instituted by his predecessors. The problem with exercising our vote, they're all the same once they take that oath. The elite control the strings. Kennedy tried to buck the standard, look where that got him.

          • 3 votes
          #1.28 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 8:23 PM EDT
          WmRAllen

          Kane, I understand your concern about the differences between theory anad application, and like Tim S., above, I was against the USA PATRIOT Act from the get-go... for the very reasons you have noted above, that it opened the way for potential abuses by the government.

          My point here is that you are painting with a very broad brush, and so not picking up some of the nuances contained within the document as written. It is the same sort of simplification that caused a slew of conservative politicians and pundits to go off the handle over the DHS "right-wing extremism" report in April, thinking that (apparently since Obama was in office and Napolitano was in charge of DHS) that they meant all conservatives everywhere, when in fact the report was begun under the previous administration, and was one of a series of reports including one concerning "left-wing extremists" that had appeared in February.

          As for fearing for the future of Newsvine, alternative media is nothing new, has been around since the first broadsheets (or perhaps Luther's 95 Theses, or the Apocrypha as excluded by the Synod of Hippo, or "that cave painting over there as opposed to the cave painting the chief did")... again, there's nothing in the definitions that prohibits or proscribes an alternate media format... and the internet, blogs, &c are used by both parties, a number of congressmen (Joe Barton of Texas is on Newsvine), companies far and wide, universities, cat fanciers, knitting clubs, and yes, extremist groups (those folks that advocate violence as a method of social change)...

          As I searched around the 'Net while writing up this post, I came across the Daily Beast column where this memo first appeared. I note that they offer much the same criticism that you do of the memo, that the definitions are broad and vague, and the interpretation not fine-grained or nuanced enough. They also note, however, that

          “Domestic Extremism Lexicon” is dated March 26—shortly before the flap over the right-wing extremism memo broke out. According to a spokesperson for DHS, the memo was recalled “within minutes” of being issued, though the spokesperson declined to offer any details on the reasons for its withdrawal...

          This is just one of a series of these reports that have been leaking recently,” Mike German, policy counsel at the ACLU's Washington DC legislative office, told The Daily Beast. “I guess I can understand the interest in making sure there is some common understanding of the terms they're using. The problem with it obviously is the terms and descriptions are so overly broad that many people who are simply advocating for issues they believe in, or don't even advocate but just hold opinions that are described here, would be greatly offended at being called an extremist and having their views being monitored by the government.”

          While DHS officials' motives in drafting and recalling the memo are unknown, German seems comfortable taking credit for the memo's recall.

          “I would say that they are certainly becoming sensitive to our concerns, which is a good thing,” German said.

          So, apparently, this is an issue that is already under consideration, and has been since late in the month of March.

          Added bonus: I also found copies of the DHS memos on Left-Wing Extremists and Right-Wing Extremists. Perhaps we can work from specifics? The LWE memo names groups such as Animal Liberation Front, the Earth Liberation Front, Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty, chapters within the Animal Defense League, Earth First!, Crimethinc, the Ruckus Society,and Recreate 68. The RWE memo doesn't name any groups specifically, but uses as examples Richard Poplawski, "two instances [during] the run-up to the election [when] extremists appeared to be in the early planning stages of some threatening activity targeting the Democratic nominee [due to his race]", the members of the Alabama Free Militia arrested in April 2007, "three rightwing militia members [arrested in 1996] in Battle Creek, Michigan with pipe bombs, automatic weapons, and military ordnance that they planned to use in attacks on nearby military and federal facilities and infrastructure targets", and, of course, Timothy McVeigh (the RWE memo deals more with the socio-political situation that might engender such groups and lone wolves to action). What all these examples seem to have in common is taking action in a material way to commit or to conspire to commit violent crimes... not just blogging or talking about them.

          • 1 vote
          #1.29 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:20 PM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Thank you for the additional links. It is indeed the "potential" for abuse and even though I was aware of the recall I also note that the mindset is already in place. With the groundswell of public dissent over current Congressional actions and the facts of the past administrations I am worried that the inch we give them in allowing this broad defining of BS can lead to more oppressive behavior.

          • 3 votes
          #1.30 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 7:22 AM EDT
          Reply
          Citizen Kane-473667

          My wife would like to say a few words:

          Just out of curiosity, what about all the government employees who change the laws of the United States, on a daily basis, isnt that being extreme, isnt that going against the government. If the government can change all the rules the way they see fit... why cant I have my own opinion and change things the way I see fit. When the government officials (you know the ones being paid millions of dollars a year to sit around and decide what is best for me) start being fair to the rest of us who bust our rearends doing everything to keep this country running at best with making minimum wage. Where is my bailout for surviving in this government, that gives billions to the rich, and a whole $25 dollar bailout for those of us that have to actually live in the real United States. WE ARE A COUNTRY BUILT ON PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT OPPINIONS ON WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. From the fast food worker to all of you who have the power to make the rules, because it is pretty evident that the majority DOES NOT RULE!!!!!!!!!!

          RAISING KANES

          • 10 votes
          Reply#2 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 8:44 PM EDT
          Brian-328194

          People are'nt busting their rear ends to keep this country running, lol, ............. everyone whether they know it or not are busting thier rear ends to keep the secret societies goals on track for a one world government !

          Even the newest god elected to the presidency, has found out he really isn't in control, and he really has limited power, although the most powerful person in public view, ......... it's the ones behind the scenes that are the real power.

          • 11 votes
          #2.1 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 8:50 PM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          ROFLMAO!! My wife says you are so totally right but you aren't allowed to correct Raising Kanes; only Citizen Kane is!!! :o)

          • 7 votes
          #2.2 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 9:08 PM EDT
          Reply
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          I have a confession.

          I am a woman, Hispanic and yes, I have PMS.

          Guess I'm a terrorist.

          ;)

          • 11 votes
          Reply#3 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 9:36 PM EDT
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          :( Gee thanks Dennis.

          But like I said to someone else.......don't look at me straight in the eye and everything will be just fine.

          lol

          • 5 votes
          #3.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:19 AM EDT
          Reply
          JustDucki

          I fall under so different many damn categories that I don't know what to call myself anymore. Maybe this can work in my favor and no one will know what group to look for me in?!

          They can play round up with us at their whim and be able to tag 99.9% of the population with some cateogry on this list.

          *walks away wondering how to integrate her multiple terroristic personalities into one?*

          • 9 votes
          Reply#4 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 9:40 PM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          I am a woman, Hispanic and yes, I have PMS.

          And I am noticibaly not messin with you Susi!

          DMW just be an Aboveboard like me; fools them every time ;0)

          • 6 votes
          #4.1 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 9:57 PM EDT
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          I'm a Gynohispanichristocatholiberdemo.

          CitizenKane.......just keep 3 paces behind me for a couple weeks a month, don't look at me dead in the eye.....and when I say dance!.....Just dance damnit!

          ;)

          • 8 votes
          #4.2 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:34 PM EDT
          JustDucki

          Gynohispanichristocatholiberdemo.

          LMAO !!

          • 6 votes
          #4.3 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:37 PM EDT
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          :) tee hee!

          So good to see some genuine senses of humor (ok is that even the correct way of saying that?) in here...lol

          • 8 votes
          #4.4 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:40 PM EDT
          neenie1991

          DMW and GGM-

          Shhh- They are very suspicious of people with a sense of humor. They don't understand it and assume you are always serious. This is dangerous. Keep it on the D.L. It's like yelling movie! in a crowded firehouse.

          • 9 votes
          #4.5 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 11:57 PM EDT
          KGMO

          It's like yelling movie! in a crowded firehouse.

          I hope you don't mind I'm going to borrow that. I will be using it as soon as I can!

          • 8 votes
          #4.6 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 1:58 AM EDT
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          This is dangerous. Keep it on the D.L. It's like yelling movie! in a crowded firehouse.

          Love it!

          I will have to retire....."It's like hearding cats around here!"

          • 3 votes
          #4.7 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:22 AM EDT
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          Neenie1991

          Yeah, I know they're called The ASS (Anti-Smile Society).

          I already got a warning telling me they're going to wipe that smile off my face.

          ;)

          • 6 votes
          #4.8 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:28 AM EDT
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          Update........

          Not only am I a Gynohispanichristocatholiberdemo but as of today.....OMG I can hardly contain myself as I type this....it's just so exciting.....

          Senator Manny Miranda (R)......announced today......That Hispanics.......WE THINK JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!

          So you better watch out.........I have a brain, too! And I'm not afraid to use it....because it .....ready for this? Allows me to think.....

          Ut oh.......

          • 3 votes
          #4.9 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 12:23 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          I am so glad to hear you are not just another party puppet! :)

          • 3 votes
          #4.10 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 7:24 AM EDT
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          Nah I can speak for myself..........don't like strings and certainly no one's hand up my bum

          :)

          • 2 votes
          #4.11 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 8:51 AM EDT
          Reply
          Maxwell Despard

          Anarchist, and proud.

          • 5 votes
          Reply#5 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:13 PM EDT
          PenniD

          My question on this seed would be: do you know anyone that doesn't qualify for a terrorist label under these guidelines?

          I lock my doors at night, but I might as well stop that. I hate to be any trouble when the government swat teams come for me. I confess nothing, okay I actually haven't done anything that I know of.

          I think I will be changing my user name and using a picture of somebody else on Newsvine from now on -- why make it easy for them?

          • 6 votes
          Reply#6 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:35 PM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          I'm not sure Penni. Gimme a second to ask Stalin, Hitler, and Castro what they think.

          They said to ask someone called George in 1984....

          • 8 votes
          #6.1 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 11:52 PM EDT
          GoldenGateMami_Susi

          Citizen Kane.....and the way things are going we might as well go down to the "Animal Farm" too and ask someone named Napoleon....his radio show might be on soon....

          :)

          • 2 votes
          #6.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:23 AM EDT
          Reply
          LifeTravler

          I hate that this stuff is so true. It makes me more tired than I already am.

          • 6 votes
          Reply#7 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:37 PM EDT
          gt350cobra

          I guess we are all terrorists and should all be controlled..........wait I think that is their goal. I first heard it mentioned by Bush Sr. in 1991, and then Obama not too long ago. They want a One world goverment. Obama is just a puppet, just like Bush was, and probably the next if there is a next.

          • 4 votes
          Reply#8 - Tue Jun 2, 2009 10:55 PM EDT
          WachingUburn

          what is a matter with a one world goverment?

          • 1 vote
          #8.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:21 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Just to broaden the mind a little try listening to "2112" by Rush side A. Listen closely to the lyrics and think in terms of your question. Come back to me when you can quote the opening track.

          • 3 votes
          #8.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:30 AM EDT
          WachingUburn

          hmm normally id tell you to blow it out your ass, but i like rush and im not that familar with that song so ok!

          • 2 votes
          #8.3 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:33 AM EDT
          WachingUburn

          good song , but im still a fan of one goverment, well not realy a fan just bored of the ones we have now

          • 3 votes
          #8.4 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:44 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Mankind has searched nfor thousands of years, since the days of cave tribes, for perfect government. What mankind failed to realize is that it is not government that is imperfect; rather it is the men who administer it!

          • 11 votes
          #8.5 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:56 AM EDT
          MJV in Wisconsin

          What mankind failed to realize is that it is not government that is imperfect; rather it is the men who administer it!

          I like that ... may I use it?

          • 4 votes
          #8.6 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:50 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Most certainly!

          • 2 votes
          #8.7 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:36 AM EDT
          1Friend

          Why are human rulers (and the rest of humanity) imperfect? Who sets the standard of perfection and the criteria to maintain it? What was the beginning of imperfection (original sin)? Disobedience to God; the desire to rule oneself rather than obey the creator. So here we are, still trying to rule ourselves - from individuals to families, communities, nations. We can't get back to that original purpose ourselves, but God is in the process of fulfilling it. His government will come, his will WILL be done on earth.

          • 1 vote
          #8.8 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:58 AM EDT
          Seabhac Re

          We can't get back to that original purpose ourselves, but God is in the process of fulfilling it. His government will come, his will WILL be done on earth.

          Or Not!

          "Attention all planets of the solar federation,
          Attention all planets of the solar federation,
          We have assumed control,
          We have assumed control"
          "2112", Neil Peart

          • 3 votes
          #8.9 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:02 PM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Funny you should quote that! See post #8.2 Great minds think alike!

          • 1 vote
          #8.10 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 1:06 PM EDT
          Seabhac Re

          I read your post and couldn't help myself. Besides it was most apropos.

          That album is one of my all-time favorites.

          • 2 votes
          #8.11 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 1:29 PM EDT
          Reply
          The Luke Situation

          Anarchists engage in communism and socialism? Isn't that counter-intuitive?

          IN OUR QUEST FOR NO GOVERNMENT WE WANT MORE GOVERNMENT.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#9 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:06 AM EDT
          WachingUburn

          no most anarchist believe that a natural order will occur or some bull, who care all abunch a idjits

          • 1 vote
          #9.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:20 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Anarchy does not equal Chaos. Contrary to what popular politics would have you believe Anarchy actually keeps government to the local level (i.e. D.C. doesn't have any say so in NY)

          • 6 votes
          #9.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:33 AM EDT
          Hen's Teeth

          Have you read "The Dispossessed", subtitle "An Ambiguous Utopia", by Ursula LeGuin?

          Besides being a well written, interesting, story, it is a very believable exploration of how an anarchist society might work.

          • 3 votes
          #9.3 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 11:29 AM EDT
          Maxwell Despard

          WatchingUBurn: Your comment has been marked as inflammatory.

          • 2 votes
          #9.4 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 11:36 AM EDT
          Reply
          Extremist Moderate

          Did my name give it away?? ☺

          • 7 votes
          Reply#10 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:10 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Extremist Moderate you are being WATCHED!

          Muhaahhaaha!!!!!!!!

          • 6 votes
          #10.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 12:14 AM EDT
          Reply
          JoulesBeef

          pretty much everyone is a radical extremist except me
          and I hope DHS keeps it's eye on all of you
          yall are scary

          If they ever decide to watch me however, then america will be truely fascist, using my definition of the word.

          • 8 votes
          Reply#11 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 2:13 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          JoulesBeef from your column:

          Security Tech: Cell phone spyware and how to protect yourself.

          Mon Jun 1, 2009

          • something new to worry about

          So You are worried about that new eavesdropping software are you? You could be:

          (U) denial-of-service attack

          (U//FOUO) An attack that attempts to prevent or impair the intended functionality of computer networks, systems, or
          applications. Depending on the type of system targeted, the attack can employ a variety of mechanisms and means.
          (also: DoS attack) (U) direct action (U//FOUO) Lawful or unlawful acts of civil disobedience ranging from protests to property destruction or acts of violence. This term is most often used by single-issue or anarchist extremists to describe their activities

          including the removing of the battery to foil attempts at tracking, eavesdropping, or monitoring in any way....

          Only an Extremist (and Possible Terrorist) would not want the authorities to know what they are up to at all times.

          • 5 votes
          #11.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 8:18 AM EDT
          Reply
          Dennis P. McCannDeleted
          swornfuk

          Maybe I'm just naive, but didn't every category mention intent to violently do something? Having a cause doesn't seem to be under attack, just violently doing so. I'm all for changing a lot of what this country does, but we have a peaceful system for that.

          • 6 votes
          Reply#13 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 5:04 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Oh Darn! Here is another one of those:

          U) aboveground

          (U//FOUO) A term used to describe extremist groups orindividuals who operate overtly and portray themselves as law-abiding.

          Now we have to look harder at you. From your column:

          20 Hypocrisies Of Liberalism :: John Hawkins

          Tue May 26, 2009

          • But my point is that both parties are out for stronger and stronger central government. Neither really cares about state or individual rights, I don't care what lip service they pay to it. The 10th ammendment may as well not exist.

          Hmmm sounds like you may be an Extremist (and Possible Terrorist). See here:

          U) patriot movement

          (U//FOUO) A term used by rightwing extremists to link their beliefs to those commonly associated with the American
          Revolution. The patriot movement primarily comprises violent antigovernment groups such as militias and sovereign
          citizens. (also: Christian patriots, patriot group, Constitutionalists, Constitutionist)

          • 4 votes
          #13.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 8:47 AM EDT
          Sog-510945

          The entire argument you are making in this seed is a gross misinterpretation of what the memo is trying to do. The memo provides a snapshot of how extremest groups currently exist in the country. It is NOT an instruction manual for finding terrorists.

          U) aboveground

          (U//FOUO) A term used to describe extremist groups orindividuals who operate overtly and portray themselves as law-abiding.

          The memo is defining a term that could be used to describe violent extremest groups. It is NOT characterizing "law-abiding" groups as possible threats.

          U) patriot movement

          (U//FOUO) A term used by rightwing extremists to link their beliefs to those commonly associated with the American
          Revolution. The patriot movement primarily comprises violent antigovernment groups such as militias and sovereign
          citizens. (also: Christian patriots, patriot group, Constitutionalists, Constitutionist)

          Again, we are defining a term used by "violent antigovernment groups such as militias and sovereign citizens." It is NOT characterizing anyone who can "link their beliefs to those commonly associated with the American Revolution."

          Unfortunately, such clarifications are mostly a waste of time. People want to believe that the government is trying to attack them, and will bend the truth to create that illusion whenever possible.

          But yes, swornfuk is correct. This memo is irrelevant to everyone but violent criminals.

          • 2 votes
          #13.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:59 AM EDT
          swornfuk

          Haha, Kane you have a point. I suppose I have some views that could be considered extreme by a paranoid government. There is certainly potential for abuse in this memo, but if Americans start disappearing in the numbers that would be required to manage dissention, people would wake up and do something about it. @!$%#, I just fit into 3 more categories.

          • 4 votes
          #13.3 - Thu Jun 4, 2009 2:29 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Sog

          This memo is irrelevant to everyone but violent criminals.

          Are you sure???

          (U) direct action

          (U//FOUO) Lawful or unlawful acts of civil disobedience ranging from protests to property destruction or acts of violence. This term is most often used by single-issue or anarchist extremists to describe their activities.

          You also state:

          The entire argument you are making in this seed is a gross misinterpretation of what the memo is trying to do.

          Yet this memo was sent out to Law Enforcement Agencies nationwide in order to make them aware of what to watch for. This memo opened the door to individual interpretation by the LE agent. If you want an example of how much lattitude that gives to LE just check on what the variations are from one local to another on enforcing speeding laws. It varies from "0" tolerance to up to 10 miles per hour tolerance over the posted limits in some places.

          • 3 votes
          #13.4 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:11 AM EDT
          swornfuk

          Your correct that this could be used and abused to include anyone. Some of the categories stink of thought police. The reality though is that we live in a nation of 300+ million people and you would have to do something to get on their radar. The best example I can think of is someone saying their going to kill the president. Were all taught that if you say that you will go to jail. The reality is that, other than the few they make examples of, the Secret Service or F.B.I. or whoever follows up on such things will check into you to see if you have the means to even commit the act and if you don't leave you alone.

          • 1 vote
          #13.5 - Sat Jun 6, 2009 2:41 AM EDT
          Reply
          Rainmaker

          All peaceful, unless you kidnap and torture me. Should anyone choose to, they better kill me, 'cause then all bets are off.

          • 2 votes
          Reply#14 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 7:24 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Rainmaker you seem like such a nice person how could anyone find a reason to detain you. You must be another:

          U) aboveground

          (U//FOUO) A term used to describe extremist groups orindividuals who operate overtly and portray themselves as
          law-abiding

          From your column:

          Korean born Danish journalist, world citizen.

          Oops now I have to look at the artcles you are posting. There seems to be a consistant religous vein through out your column. Ah yes here it is! You are an Extremist (and Possible Terrorist) because:

          U) violent religious sects

          (U//FOUO) Religious extremist groups predisposed toward violence. These groups often stockpile weapons, conduct paramilitary training, and share a paranoid interpretation of current world events, which they often associate with the end of the world. They perceive outsiders as enemies or evil influences; display intense xenophobia and strong distrust of the government; and exercise extreme physical or psychological control over group members, sometimes isolating them from society or subjecting them to physical or sexual abuse and harsh initiation practices.

          and if that is not enough I notice you routinely go outside MSM to get the sources so:

          (U) alternative media

          (U//FOUO) A term used to describe various information sources that provide a forum for interpretations of events and issues that differ radically from those presented in mass media products and outlets.

          Yes now you too bear closer monitoring.....

          • 2 votes
          #14.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:39 AM EDT
          Rainmaker

          world citizen.

          Oops now I have to look at the artcles you are posting.

          I notice you routinely go outside MSM to get the sources so:

          (U) alternative media

          Was it the articles from Al Jazeera that gave me away?

          • 4 votes
          #14.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:44 AM EDT
          Reply
          tcareywood

          Thank God for the Patriot Act. I knew it would not be long before the government turned it against its own citizens. We now have a government by the government for the government. The people are just pissants to be ruled. Serfdom is back. Debtor prisons are around the corner.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#15 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 8:07 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Someone turned on a light in this thread. Good job tcareywood!!

          • 3 votes
          #15.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 8:49 AM EDT
          KGMO

          I knew it would not be long before the government turned it against its own citizens.

          Wasn't that always it's purpose?

          • 4 votes
          #15.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 8:57 AM EDT
          NoCar ForYouDeleted
          Reply
          keith in DSM

          We can blame it all on the Labor Movement. They scared the hell out of the powers that be when they made Democracy a working reality through the Democratic Party.

          Nothing scares the Kings of Wealth more then the Common Man.

          The Age of Enlightenment never ended. We are just going through the last phase of it where the Kings win.

          Good-bye Democracy. Good-bye the Promised Land. Hello Secret Government.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#16 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 8:41 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Hello Secret Government.

          Hello right back atcha Keith in DSM! Hope we didn't wake you. It is much better if you sleep while I sell arms to Iran and use the money my CIA operatives made trafficing in cocaine in South America so I don't get causght. No worries; I will throw a scapegoat out there for anything I do. Hell, I will even toss you guys an ex-president if you want if that will keep you happy! IT is much easier than impeaching another one. Never know what they might reveal further down the road when we do that....

          • 2 votes
          Reply#17 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 8:55 AM EDT
          keith in DSM

          CK - Yes, I think we should rename the CIA too. Let's call it Capitalism's Invisible Army.

          • 3 votes
          #17.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:10 AM EDT
          NoCar ForYouDeleted
          Itshardouthereforapimp

          Hugo Chavez is the Dictator of Venezuela, not Argentina. Do you have any shred of proof whatsoever of Hezbollah training camps in South America?

          • 3 votes
          #17.3 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:52 AM EDT
          KGMO

          But to bleeding heart Socialist/Communist Liberals it's always America who is the bad guy.

          It's not just America, but shouldn't we fix the problems here at home before we go toppling dicators in the name of democracy. Have you looked at who we sell weapons to?

          • 3 votes
          #17.4 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:54 AM EDT
          Itshardouthereforapimp

          Good point, we sell smart bombs to the Saudis and then offset that sale with a sale to the Israelis, to "balance the region." It's rediculous, no amount of weaponry will ever stabilize a region.

          • 3 votes
          #17.5 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:02 AM EDT
          NoCar ForYouDeleted
          Citizen Kane-473667

          Hezbollah in South America

          • 1 vote
          #17.7 - Fri Jun 5, 2009 10:13 AM EDT
          Reply
          jabbausaf

          They come up with these lists as a result of violent acts that have taken place. Don't want to be watched, don't be part of a violent movement. Isn't that what we've been telling the Muslims for years? But now that the government is watching whites as well as blacks and browns, now that the government is watching right-wing groups as well as left-wing groups and politically unclassifiable crazies, suddenly the black helicopters are on the way to take the violent militias off to the reeducation camps.

          Hilarious.

          I'd be genuinely surprised if there's not a file on me somewhere, and if there isn't, somebody isn't doing their job.

          • 1 vote
          Reply#18 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:17 AM EDT
          jabbausaf

          Act on your convictions and you may become a "Domestic Terrorist".

          Yes, if you blow up an abortion clinic or an IRS office, acting on your convictions, with the intent to cause fear and uncertainty, you are a domestic terrorist. You don't think the guys blowing themselves up in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't "acting on their convictions"?

          • 1 vote
          Reply#19 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:20 AM EDT
          Itshardouthereforapimp

          OK, sure, they may be, and nobody is excusing them for what they've done. It doesn't really matter what group you belong to if your agenda includes killing women and children and the elderly and so on and so forth. Acting on convictions doesn't excuse our actions when our convictions include cold blooded murder.

          • 2 votes
          #19.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:48 AM EDT
          Citizen Kane-473667

          How about attending a Taxed Enough Already Party? Should that be a reason to tag you an Extremist? It's not a violent protest, right?

          (U) tax resistance movement

          (U//FOUO) Groups or individuals who vehemently believe taxes violate their constitutional rights. Among their beliefs are that wages are not income, that paying income taxes is voluntary, and that the 16th Amendment to the
          U.S. Constitution, which allowed Congress to levy taxes on income, was not properly ratified. Members have been known to advocate or engage in criminal activity and plot acts of violence and terrorism in an attempt to advance their extremist goals. They often target government entities such as the Internal Revenue Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. (also: tax protest movement, tax freedom movement, antitax
          movement)

          But then on the other hand jabbausaf after checking your column I tend to lean towards you being an Extremist (and Possible Terrorist) because you belong to no groups or have any friends:

          U) lone terrorist

          (U//FOUO) An individual motivated by extremist ideology to commit acts of criminal violence independent of any larger terrorist organization. (also: lone wolf)

          U) aboveground

          (U//FOUO) A term used to describe extremist groups orindividuals who operate overtly and portray themselves as
          law-abiding.

          • 4 votes
          #19.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:13 AM EDT
          jabbausaf

          Classify me as whatever you want, it doesn't make you any smarter, and your insanity isn't convincing anyone.

          The downside of living in a democracy is that you can't be so overtly crazy that nobody wants to support your positions. Then you wind up not having any political power, and the people elected by the majority don't share your views.

          I don't get why right-wing protestors are suddenly whining and crying about being monitored for peaceful protests. On the left we've had to put up with that for over a hundred years. And hey, the domestic terrorist who assassinated Tiller got his start in the antitax movement. Might actually be a pretty good place to look for budding violent extremists before they get the chance to kill.

          • 1 vote
          #19.3 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 1:55 PM EDT
          KGMO

          Wow CK. You even cut and pasted the ridiculous definition from the seed and they still don't get how absurd the whole thing is.

            #19.4 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 2:13 PM EDT
            neenie1991

            Wow jab, angry much?

            • 1 vote
            #19.5 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 2:34 PM EDT
            Sog-510945

            Wow CK. You even cut and pasted the ridiculous definition from the seed and they still don't get how absurd the whole thing is.

            Because he's bending the words of the report to make it say something that it was never intended to say. It doesn't say that Tea Parties are in themselves violent extremist activities. It does say that gatherings that might resemble Tea Parties my be comprised of violent extremeists.

            Can you spot the difference?

            • 3 votes
            #19.6 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 2:36 PM EDT
            KGMO

            Sog-510945

            Yes I do. Good point. I won't speak for CK as to whether that was intentional. I was taking him to mean that all of these definitions were kind of ridiculous. However none of my beliefs have been challenged in this seed (at least not that I noticed) so it's a little easier for me to take it so lightly.

            • 3 votes
            #19.7 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 2:59 PM EDT
            Citizen Kane-473667

            doesn't say that Tea Parties are in themselves violent extremist activities.

            Doesn't even say you have to be violent to be an extremist. It just says you must believe in a cause enough to be considered one. I refer you to post #1.23 for edification....

            • 3 votes
            #19.8 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 4:35 PM EDT
            Reply
            Itshardouthereforapimp

            Perfect, absolutely perfect. CK, wanna check my posts and tell me which group I fit into? This is fun, pin the tail on the terrorist is great! The beauty of it is that there are so many of us, no matter where you stick that tail, you're bound to hit somebody.

            • 4 votes
            Reply#20 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:37 AM EDT
            Citizen Kane-473667

            I have officially dubbed you the Brilliant Mind that came up with the name for this "Game" of "Pin The Tail on The Terrorist"! Since you have been so cooperative we will officially inducted you into "The Government" and allow you the honor of Naming That Extremist. After all, you seem to be pretty much:

            (U) aboveground

            (U//FOUO) A term used to describe extremist groups orindividuals who operate overtly and portray themselves as
            law-abiding.

            • 5 votes
            #20.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 11:01 AM EDT
            Reply
            NoCar ForYouDeleted
            Itshardouthereforapimp

            Is this the work of Janet Napolitano? It must be. Shes the same idiot that thinks we need increased security along the Canadian border so that it's comparable to Mexico, cause of all the murderous drug cartels from Canada and thier damn moose and mounties and marijuana.

            When we've all been labeled and classified and neatly sorted into our groups then what?

            • 3 votes
            Reply#22 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:42 AM EDT
            Tim S.-560036

            If I remember right, several of the 911 attackers entered the country via Canada as did the potential dirty bomber. Think there might be a connection?

            • 1 vote
            #22.1 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 3:59 PM EDT
            Citizen Kane-473667

            so that it's comparable to Mexico

            Darn now we have to cut down all those trees and get rid of the bears. Post a bunch of thinly staffed Border Cops along the way and if they do manage to get in I have to grant them Amnesty in September too.

            • 3 votes
            #22.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 4:39 PM EDT
            Reply
            Brent-320354

            I guess this "open government" stuff isn't all it was cracked up to be....

            • 5 votes
            Reply#23 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 9:46 AM EDT
            Itshardouthereforapimp

            I don't really mind paying taxes too much, as long as they go to the right place and help people that really actually need help. They probably isn't the case all of the time, but some of the time.....maybe.

            • 3 votes
            Reply#24 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM EDT
            fire starter

            "Homeland Security" is a criminal organization established by the Government to arrest, question, and imprison American citizens who present any danger as described in your article - which is basically covering everyone thinking any thoughts in this country.

            HS is established after the exact same guidelines as Gestapo (secret state police) under Hitler.

            If you think this is far fetched, please read here (cut and paste, link does not work for me):

            • 3 votes
            Reply#25 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:26 AM EDT
            NoCar ForYouDeleted
            fire starter

            Not being a Liberal nor a Conservative I can only assume you are unaware that Homeland Security was established by Bush.

            Yet I don't care who runs it.

            "National Security" is merely a bad excuse for hunting American citizens who think differently - or who dares to think at all.

            • 4 votes
            #25.2 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:44 AM EDT
            jabbausaf

            Socialism is about public ownership of things and fair treatment of workers. Fire departments, police departments, state schools and community college, public parks, public roads, 8 hour workdays, these are socialist ideas.

            Totalitarianism, be it Stalinist or Fascist, is about gulags and prison camps.

            If Socialism is about gulags, and Obama is about socialism, why aren't you in a gulag yet? If, after 8 years of Obama, you still aren't in a gulag, will you still say socialism is gulags and Obama?

            • 1 vote
            #25.3 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 1:48 PM EDT
            Reply
            fire starter
              Reply#26 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:30 AM EDT
              fire starter

              this is @!$%#ing ridiculous!

              just google GESTAPO!

              • 1 vote
              Reply#27 - Wed Jun 3, 2009 10:31 AM EDT
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